In a television interview, Mark describes how he used a recording pen to learn what bankruptcy trustees tell indebted Canadians, and why he is concerned they are not told about all their options, including limitation periods.
Transcript
The spy pen
This is a spy pen. I got it at one of those stores in Toronto, one of those stores that has all these gadgets, like for example the teddy bear with the camera so that people can see what their babysitter is doing. But this pen, you just click it down and it starts to record. It can record for 17 hours, and then I just plug a device in the back of it, plug it into a computer, and it creates a WAV file.
What trustees were telling people
For the research for the book, I wanted to find out what people were actually being told if they went to see a bankruptcy trustee, or a credit counselling agency, or a debt settlement firm, or the different types of organizations that provide advice to consumers. So I had several people who were in debt go and have appointments with bankruptcy trustees. They just went in and said, this is my financial situation, give me some advice.
That's where I came across the situation where, and I actually told them to ask the question, if these debts were more than two years old, what would happen if I just didn't pay? It was obvious that these particular bankruptcy trustees really didn't know very much about limitation periods. Basically, they explained what a consumer proposal is and what a personal bankruptcy is, and they really didn't talk about limitations. They never mentioned settling for less than 100% at all.
Why people aren't told all their options
In my book I talk about doing installment payments, getting a consolidation loan, doing debt settlement where you're making a lump sum payment for a huge discount, doing credit counselling, doing a consumer proposal, or doing personal bankruptcy. In my book The Wolf At The Door, I try to explain to the readers what all their options are. What concerns me is that if a person is going to a credit counselling agency, or if they're going to see a bankruptcy trustee, they are probably not going to be told about all of the various options that they have.
I think it's only human nature. If you're a bankruptcy trustee and someone comes to see you, and they don't sign up for a consumer proposal or personal bankruptcy, the bankruptcy trustee is not going to make any money. So I think it's only human nature that, hopefully, when people come in, they may become a client. With bankruptcy trustees, I think part of it is also that there are a lot of them in Canada who really don't know very much about the other options. There certainly seems to be a real lack of knowledge among bankruptcy trustees in Canada about limitation periods, and I think that's something bankruptcy trustees as a group should be concerned about.
An example: debts that are three years old
I could give you an example. Someone could owe $100,000 in debt, they live in Ontario, and these debts are all three years old. They go and see a bankruptcy trustee. The bankruptcy trustee may say, here's a consumer proposal, here's a personal bankruptcy, I recommend you do one of them. If they had talked to me, or if they'd read my book, I'm going to say, all of these debts are over two years old. If you were to be sued on these, you'd have a good defence on all of it. You wouldn't have to pay any of this. Or you may be in a position where you may want to settle these at 15 cents on the dollar.